Read All About It: In Conversation with Kesewaa Brown
Talented journalist and writer, Kesewaa Brown and I studied together at Loughborough University. Since then, Kes has gone on to do some pretty enviable stuff in the fast-paced news world. Writing, producing and reporting for a number of impressive outlets - Newsround, The BBC, CBBC, Riverside Radio (to name a few). Just the other day, Kesewaa posted about interviewing the literal director of the Black Panther films, Ryan Coogler (yeh, really). I had the pleasure of catching up with Kesewaa about the pieces she’s most proud of, her biggest learnings in the industry, things she’d most like to see change about it and advice for anyone wanting to follow in her (impressive as hell) footsteps.
Kesewaa’s work in the industry so far, particular some of the pieces she’s managed to pitch herself on underreported issues, is incredibly inspiring. The news needs more people like her let me tell ya. Public opinion and policies are shaped by which stories are told and who tells them, in an industry which has historically been very (white) male dominated voices like Kesewaa’s and the stories she’s telling are vitally important.
Before we get to the good stuff, some stats about the news industry incase anyone needs reminding how white ‘n’ male it is (sources at the end of the article):
Now, let the cracking interview begin…
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Meg: Journalism is notoriously hard to get into, what was your experience like starting out? Am I right in saying you began at the BBC on the Journalism Trainee Scheme?
Kesewaa: Yes! And I’m still there…You know what, looking back, I probably didn’t have too much experience in comparison to other people I was going up against. I’d written for the university magazine, which I was very proud of, and I’d done some (very bad) podcasts as well and the other people I was going up against…one of them was a Bafta winner, which was crazy! And others had already done work experience at the Times or the BBC before, so when it comes to actual industry experience as I didn’t have much, I wasn’t expecting much. And then I got through to the second round…And then the final round…And then I found out I’d got it, just before graduation. I was really surprised. And speaking to other people who got in the intake the same time as I did, they applied two or three times before…
It is a very difficult industry I think to work in and navigate. A lot of journalists whether they’re editors or just journalists in general, they come from private school backgrounds and they’ve been to Oxbridge. I came from neither, I went to a state school. I went to a good uni but it wasn’t Oxbridge, which definitely holds weight. Whilst being in the industry there have been awkward moments where you know some of these people are really out of touch with reality, sometimes when you read things, you know what I mean? And I think the big thing for me was shining a light on issues that were overlooked, that was the main driving factor for me to get into journalism. So it’s been a very interesting four years for sure.
Meg: I know other people who applied for the scheme at the same time as you who applied two or three times and didn’t get it. Must’ve been right person, right place, right time for you - it’s amazing that you did get on it! And it’s interesting to hear what drove you to do it. Especially at the time when you started out but now still as well – the industry really needed that injection of people from different, not just privately educated, Oxbridge backgrounds.
Kesewaa: Yeah 100%. I just think sometimes when you see things [in the news], you can just see the distance between [the presenter and interviewee] – and it feels like an awkward conversation they’re having. Like have you never spoken to someone outside the area of…I don’t know, Bista? Have they ever spoken to people outside of these Oxbridge colleges? And it doesn’t feel like they have sometimes. Definitely there’s a lot that needs to be done there.
I definitely came into journalism thinking I’d make a change. But do you know what? There’s only one of me, I can’t overhaul this system. But it’s important to not belittle yourself because of the fact you don’t come from those backgrounds. I think early on in my career I was so anxious and nervous and now I just don’t really care. I am who I am, it is who it is.
Meg: You’ve already touched on it there in terms of why you joined - but what are the biggest things you’d kind of want to see change in the industry now you have experience in it?
Kesewaa: To go over the former, reporting on stories authentically. I watched the news from a young age and I always wanted to get into long-form stuff – so things like documentaries. There were always so many topics that came into my head that I really wanted to see stuff on. And for me just having a canvas to be creative on was a big driver. And also amplifying people’s stories who don’t watch the news specifically. You know, telling more diverse stories of people from all different ethnic backgrounds. I’m really passionate about telling Black and Asian stories, but one thing I’d also love to do is, in this country we have such a large Polish, Eastern European population and I don’t feel like those stories are very often reflected. You just don’t really ever see their stories.
Meg: It’s funny you say that, my Mum’s side of the family is Polish/Lithuanian and I’ve often noticed it – you rarely hear Eastern European perspectives. If the news, historically, has come from such a particular angle it must be missing out on such a wide range of amazing and really important and relevant stories to a big portion of the UK population.
Kesewaa: For sure, and in terms of things I’d like to see change…more risk-taking when it comes to pushing the boundary on different storytelling techniques. A lot of things are really so safe. And I’d love to see more creativity there. Just ensuring we tell people’s stories accurately. I’d love for one day, I don’t know if it’ll be possible, but for everyone to feel like the news is for them. So that they can at least, maybe not every day, but every couple of days or at least once a week see something that kind of reflects them. For now, I like being a journalist but one day I’d like to move and get into scripted TV as a TV writer or editor or creating storylines and I think it’s kind of similar in what drives me to want to do that – writing or working on these topics and stories that people don’t feel comfortable talking about. Taboos, or characters or friendships that you don’t really see spoken about because it’s not news, but it actually is happening.
Meg: In this vein, I’ve seen some of the work highlights you’ve shared on Insta that delve into these kinds of topics or areas which may not have been covered before – could you tell me about a couple of pieces you’re most proud to have been part of?
Kesewaa: I was really proud to pitch and produce a documentary last year on sickle cell - which is a genetic blood condition. It’s something I’d always wanted to do something on. I’m very passionate about health and it’s the fastest-growing genetic blood condition in the UK, but I don’t think there’s much education [on it] and I think for me, I would love to educate and inform people about the condition and how it impacts people. One big thing about how it impacts patients is poor care - they feel like they receive poor care and there has been evidence of this, people dying due to it and I think just making that and seeing it from start to finish is something I’m really proud of.
Watch Kesewaa’s sickle cell documentary on BBC iPlayer here
I started working on it during the pandemic and at the time I was really going through a long period of grief. So it was really important I could finish that and I don’t think I’d been up against such adverse circumstances. I’m not very often proud of my work because I think that’s the annoying thing about news as well, you get it out and it’s done you know!…But definitely for me working on that. I’m not sure if there’ve been any changes since but definitely for the presenter who we casted, she’s been able to do a lot more with her profile and continue to raise awareness. And one of the other contributors we featured in the piece, a rapper, has also gone on to chair health conferences with expert speakers. Maybe they already had a profile but having something out there that’s concrete has helped them spread their message even further and empowered them to do so. And that’s amazing to have played a part in that.
Meg: Really amazing! Are there other women in the industry, who you work with currently or you knew about previously who’ve inspired you or you look up to? I saw on your Instagram a post about Una Marson, I was really interested to learn more about her, if you wouldn’t mind telling me?
Kesewaa: Yeh so she was one of the first black female Producers to work at the BBC. And I remember I actually wrote a piece about her in my first month of being at the BBC which featured Black British figures who weren’t talked about in school. It also featured people like Lorrie Cunningham a footballer who was a trailblazer at the time and other historic figures too. [Read the article here].
Trailblazing journalist, Una Marson
When it comes to Una, I don’t think many of us would have a career without her. When we read back historical texts about stuff she had to put up with from members of the public, but staff as well, it’s just a bit awkward I guess. Being the first is always a bit awkward, isn’t it? And all the stuff she had to put up with is very inspiring to me. Growing up as well I used to love Moira Stewart who worked on TV and for the BBC, she was a huge inspiration to me. Currently, one of my mentors Miriam Walker-Khan is such a trailblazer she does a lot of sports stories that focus on real human aspects and ensures people with disabilities and from ethnic minorities are being represented and lifted up. For me, the work Miriam Walker-Khan does is just so inspiring. The fact she’s such a busy person but she always has all this time to kind of give to other people – she’s very generous with her time. Two years in a row she was the lead for BBC Sports Black History month and 28 pieces for the month of October were published, edited, commissioned or co-commissioned by her. She’s someone who’s always ensuring women are being uplifted and ensuring people can watch the news, sports news and see themselves being represented. So for me, that’s just so really really inspiring and she’s only 29. I just think, wow all the things you’ve achieved. And how generous she is with her time and so kind as well.
And as well, my Mum. My Mum is my biggest inspiration too. I’m getting emotional even thinking about my Mum. I wouldn’t be where I was or the person I was without my mum. From the age of 6 months, my Mum saved up every month for me to be able to go to university. So when I went I didn’t go without things, I had that support network for me. At the time I really didn’t want to go, but looking back I’m so pleased she kind of forced me because it worked out really well.
Meg: I mean, what a list! Thank you. Keeping on the positive track, what are the best bits about working in the industry?
Kesewaa: Talking to people and hearing their stories. You know for some people that I speak to, it’s their first time ever speaking to the press and being able to see the results that come after it’s just amazing. Telling people’s stories is such a positive to me and being able to make sure stories, maybe untold stories are told. And having those awkward convos is such a positive. I’ve made some friends for life. We’ve gone through similar experiences, and it does bond you. The skills I’ve learnt perhaps as well…My degree was definitely the foundation of my writing and stuff and researching but it’s been heightened more by my day-to-day role. And meeting amazing people and seeing them do amazing things, I’ve seen colleagues write books and do all sorts of amazing things. To be able to see that and see them reap what they’ve sown is fantastic.
Meg: You’ve talked about some amazing women and people that you look up to, but I think given all that you’ve achieved already – you’re very much going to be in that camp too for people. So I just wondered if you had any advice for others, from a similar background as yourself or not that ‘expected background’ for people in the industry.
Kesewaa: I think just believe in yourself, you’re already halfway there if you believe in your sauce. So many people in life will try to put you down, whether that’s insecurity from them or you know they feel like because they had it rough you should have it rough too - which I totally disagree with. You just have to believe in yourself and know what you’re capable of, sometimes these things do take time and that’s okay! It’s okay if you’re not good at things at first, who is ever! Very rarely are people good at things at first, it takes time and practice. Be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes. Don’t let other people hold you back and put limitations on you, because you can do anything if you put your mind to it and you’re in a supportive environment. Emphasis on supportive environment. But yeah, there’s obviously a lot of outside factors at play whether that’s gender – the stats are there! We see it. Whether that’s religion, ethnicity, where you’re from – but sometimes there are opportunities and possibilities to push past that.
When I started out, I still think about it now but a lot less. I was always very conscious that I’m not like the other people here. I’m not super posh, I’m not white, didn’t go to Oxbridge and for so long I focused on that so much – but when I stopped focusing on that so much I definitely became a lot more confident in myself. It’s so easy to look at the differences we have, but know that these differences are also your strengths. You’ll be able to have a different perspective on things that others might not and be able to have conversations with people that others might not. And it’s really important to not think less of yourself because you didn’t go to X school or because you’re not from X place, or uni. It's so easy to do that but keep on believing in yourself, trusting your gut and finding a good support network - that’s really important. It’s so beneficial to find a mentor or a friend-tor - someone a few years older who can offer advice in the industry or who’s gone through what you’re going through - as a sounding board and also to help you. No one is ever really self-made. They all have strong support networks behind them. The most successful people do. Or people who run society. Look at the King! He’s got a support network. They wouldn’t be able to function without the people on the sidelines or those a few jobs sideways from them. So ensuring you have that support network and someone you really trust. And just know that we all have people helping us.
Meg: With your mentor, how did you find her? Is there a system at the BBC? Or how did you personally find them?
Kesewaa: You know what, I have people from inside the BBC and outside. Depending on your industry, there’s often networking schemes. But equally, someone’s offered before. And that’s just through asking them a question like – do you have any advice on this, or who’s the best person to contact for XYZ. There’s mentoring schemes, but equally just reaching out to people. It’s okay if they say no! Just go into it and try to figure out the terms of it as well whether it’s continuing thing or one off. Finding a mentor if you can is really important.
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To keep up with Kesewaa:
Find her on IG here.
Sources:
https://womeninjournalism.co.uk/about-us/
https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/women-and-leadership-news-media-2022-evidence-12-markets
https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/race-and-leadership-news-media-2022-evidence-five-markets